Tuesday, July 9, 2013

News From the Lyft Lounge: Insurance? We Don't Need No Stinking Commercial Insurance ... Do We?

Subject: lyft lounge

Date: July 8, 2013 2:09:52 PM PDT

Jul 5 at 12:43pm · 
So I have State Farm insurance and they are dropping me for being a lyft driver.. Does anyone know where I can get insurance at?? I don't understand why they are doing this.. I have full coverage on my car.. Help??
Joshua Stull likes this.

Is your agent dropping you or the company?
Like · 2 · Jul 5 at 12:46pm

Did you tell them you're driving...or did they find out?
Like · Jul 5 at 12:48pm

why are they dropping you? I mean, did you tell them that you were a Lyft driver or report an accident while Lyfting or did they just say out of the blue "You're driving for Lyft so bye!"

If it's the latter, ask for where they received the information as the source would have had to obtained your insurance information illegally.
Like · Jul 5 at 12:48pm

Mario's question is the main question. Because when Stephanie introduced me to Jenny from State Farm Jenny said it's fine. You should email Jenny and figure it out if it is in fact the company.
Like · 3 · Jul 5 at 12:49pm

BTW, this is something else that is not informed to drivers during orientation - that current insurance companies do not have coverage that fit the ridesharing style and that reporting that you are driving for Lyft could result in them considering you too much of a risk and drop you.
Like · 3 · Jul 5 at 12:49pm

The insurance co is dropping me.. Cause I told them I need to make sure I am covered while driving and if anythings happens I don't want them to deny a claim.. She said they don't have that coverage so to look for another company that does..
Like · 1 · Jul 5 at 12:53pm

Like · Jul 5 at 12:54pm

Try Farmer's.
Like · Jul 5 at 12:56pm

Ah, mine told me that they'd drop me if I drove for Lyft so I said Ok, I won't bother driving for them. And am still driving. But I'm willing to take the risk. AFAIK, if I get into an accident that requires me to inform my insurance company that I work for Lyft, people will still be covered (due to Lyft's own policy) but my car won't be. Oh and they'll then drop me too.

From previous posts, there are currently no insurance carriers that will insure your car for the business purpose of transporting people (although a couple of people are working with insurance companies to change this - there's been no word of it being approved yet.)

If someone says they will, read the policy carefully about what it will cover and have them point out where and what it says will be covered if you have an accident while transporting passengers for money. An agent's word, even in writing, isn't a guarantee. It has to be in the policy itself.
Edited · Like · 1 · Jul 5 at 1:02pm

So how are we supposed to be driving around with our car not being protected is my question? I mean lyft should say "drive at your own risk" I have to have my car protected I still have a note on it.. I can't afford not to be covered.. Guess I won't be driving for lyft anymore...
Like · 1 · Jul 5 at 1:02pm

Many drivers have stopped because of the insurance issue. It's something Lyft is working on. Why they don't inform potential new drivers I won't hazard a guess. I haven't attended any recent trainings but during mine 3 months ago, I wasn't informed about the Cease and Desist Order from SFO either.

If I get into an accident, I don't plan on informing my insurance company why I was driving, just what happened. IMO, it's none of their business.
Edited · Like · 6 · Jul 5 at 1:06pm

I started a month or so ago and there was no mention at all of insurance issues or any issues at SFO,
Like · 2 · Jul 5 at 1:08pm

Bessy Rocio Orellana check with Allstate local...I just spoke with a general Allstate agent and she said that because lyft does have their 1 mill policy...they can find a policy that can match the limits necessary for you to drive insured....prices of course might be higher, but still peace of mind is worth it. My recommendation is to call a local Allstate carrier and tell them about lyft 1 mill liability insurance policy and go from there.
Like · Jul 5 at 1:09pm

I'm not worried about the liability part.. I have good liability coverage on my policy.. What I'm worried is about my collision if I hit I need my car fixed.. I understand some companies cover the liability only but I need all way coverage too
Like · Jul 5 at 1:19pm

I'm talking about covering yourself completely...since lyft is already covering the liability side for your passengers...it gives your insurance company more incentive to find a full coverage plan for your car in case of any accident.
Like · 3 · Jul 5 at 1:43pm

There is (currently) NO collision insurance plans for privately owned vechicles operating to transport passengers as a business. It doesn't exist. They may eventually come up with one but for now, there isn't one.

The only way to get your car collision taken care of is for your insurance company to not know you were driving for lyft when it happened. You tell them the specifics and details of the accident but leave out any mention of lyft, ridesharing or transporting people for donations.

And hope the other side does as well.
Like · 2 · Jul 5 at 1:50pm

So whatever happened with the coverage someone was getting info on? I don't remember at tne moment who was this person.
Like · Friday at 3:51pm

Markus Dark is right. there is no company that will cover for ur while driving for lyft. Davis Highway Lee,Shawn C. Reed, & some other drivers did a research on this. Bottom line, It's a risk to drive for lyft now.
Like · 2 · Friday at 4:40pm

Carlos, there are a few people, both drivers and lyft employees, who are working on the issue. Trust me when I say the moment a solution is available, it will be widely announced.

Until such time, there's no need to bug them. They all know it is a high priority both from a legal as well as a public relations standpoint.
Like · 4 · Friday at 5:23pm

Maybe Lyft can set up something like a 401k for drivers car insurance. Wherein we could contribute an amount each month. Then we could be covered if our own insurance won't pay up.
Like · 3 · Friday at 6:51pm

But the problem is that what we're doing for Lyft is not "personal".
Like · Friday at 7:45pm

Carlos Angel I spent a couple weeks calling insurance companies of every stripe, including the companies that insure taxis and limos, but no one is able to write a policy for Lyft. Essentially the problem is that no one has calculated the risks yet, and without calculating the risk insurance companies wouldn't be able to set a price for coverage.

I've heard from one agent that the best solution would be for Lyft to partner with a major insurance carrier and offer to basically guarantee against the risk the insurance company would be taking by allowing Lyft.
Like · 7 · Friday at 7:56pm

Joshua, actually what we're doing is personal. We're private contractors using our personal cars to pick people up and transport them not for fares but donations.

None of us have a class A license which is what is currently required by law to transport passengers as a business nor the required medallion or TCP numbers for the vehicles where we could then get a commercial insurance.

As I said, there isn't an insurance system out there to cover what we're doing. The PUC needs to make sure the public is covered - which is what Lyft's liability insurance does. However, we're on the hook for our property.
Edited · Like · 3 · Friday at 8:28pm

Thanks for the answers. We have to keep up thinking about some type of solution for this. Meanwhile lets be careful.
Like · 2 · Saturday at 2:31am

Markus Dark I didn't say anything about lyft not having our backs. I wouldn't be driving if I didn't trust them. It's just that this an issue that we are dealing as of the moment. btw, who's CARLOS? lol
Like · 1 · Saturday at 7:44am

Hey Carlo you may not be able to see it but Markus was replying to Carlos Angel! Just FYI... Lol 
Like · Saturday at 8:50am

Markus Dark My bad, now i'm confused. lol Joe TheCondor I hope my prime art is still prime. lol
Like · 1 · Saturday at 9:43am

Are there cases of Lyft (or Side Car) drivers who's insurance company denied their claim?
Like · Saturday at 10:37am

Or of any driver actually needing to file a claim.
Like · Saturday at 11:18am

I know there's been accidents while lyfting. What has been the outcome, I don't know. I know I wouldn't have a need to post it here.
Like · Saturday at 11:55am

Please keep us posted. Hopefully this issue is resolved soon and we have choices of insurance providers. Seems to me Lyft (as well as Sidecar and UberX) risks a mass exodus if there ends up being an epidemic of insurance claims being denied.
Like · Saturday at 12:20pm

try USAA
Like · Saturday at 4:31pm

Lyft is an example of technology evolving. Just like cd to digital and file sharing... There will be soon "legal tape put up" to regulate a new market.
Like · 1 · Saturday at 6:10pm

I had a customer this morning that asked about our insurance. She said some cabbies were handing out flyers saying that it was dangerous to ride with us because we are uninsured. I told her that Lyft has a million dollar liability policy if our personal insurance doesn't cover it. My carrier, CSAA, said I was covered and hopefully that story doesn't change if I ever need it.
Like · Saturday at 7:24pm

You mean USAA?
Like · Saturday at 7:36pm

When I called my State Farm agent she said she had just got out of a meeting about how they intend to handle ride share insurance. She said there's no precedent and that's what's holding things up (along the lines of what Tony said). Trust me, they want to take our money and will find a way ASAP 
Like · 1 · Yesterday at 2:39am

Hi Mike. No, not USAA. CSAA is Calif. State Auto Assoc. (also known as AAA).
Like · Yesterday at 1:59pm

Ok thanks.
Like · Yesterday at 2:03pm

call the ca dept of insurance on monday and tell them about the cancellation letter you recieved and explain to them that the insurance company has made a definition and misclassification error and discriminating against you on false pretenses. only a judge can make a definition of a classification such as a lyft driver to be standardized for an insurance company. it could be a class action law suit if they persist with these sorts of tactics. insurance is regulated by the state and im sure there was meeting in the state gvernment about lyft driver insurance coding nd classification for the sake of jurisprudence.
Like · 2 · Yesterday at 3:11pm

Call me if u need help ill get u sorted if u cant figure it out i was an insurance managing agent for 7 years. 415 424 3313
Like · Yesterday at 5:37pm

Good luck with that Kieth. In the meantime you might want to read the terms you agreed to when you signed up with Lyft.


And, why don't you ask John Zimmer to show you the  terms, conditions and exclusions
 of the million policy that you imagine that you are covered by?

The Phantom


  1. Ha! I just clicked on Bessy Rosio and it shows her profile as being a "selectquote" insurance agent!! Even funnier after looking at her question again!

  2. Ed,

    That is brilliant! You nailed them by letting them nail themselves. I want in on this Lyft Lounge so I can watch the slow collapse of the dream.

    Here is a link to an ABC news story where John Zimmer of Lyft tells the camera not to worry about any stinking insurance problems. http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?section=news/local/los_angeles&id=9167692

    Does Zimmer look like a reptile or what? Very scary breed our Mayor has warmed up to. Perhaps our Mayor is a reptile also.

    Once again, I'd post my real name but I'm afraid Ron Conway and the Mayors goons might put a hit on me.

    1. Don't worry, the Mayor's not Chinese Triad (Mafia).

    2. What's with Mayor Lee's perpetual smile? Has he had a facelift? Is he smiling or squinting? Is he happy or unhappy. I can't figure out his smile. It seems like he's saying "you're my greatest joy" to everyone he beams too but that can't be correct.

  3. I don't really think the Mayor or Ron Conway would put a hit on me. But don't fool yourself. This is a turf war over lucrative transportation models which generate respectable money. If that wasn't the case, Lyft wouldn't have been given 60 million dollars from people who consider themselves to be shrewd, savvy and visionary business investors. These VC people on Sand Hill Road don't like to lose. They are playing dirty already and plan to steal the taxi business completely. Their lawyers already have several plans in place in the event the CPUC rulings don't go their way. There will be no rejoicing should the CPUC Judge rule against them. It will not stop them from operating as they appeal and move to higher courts for redress. They will also buy politicians along the way. It going to get much more ugly than we may be prepared for. This is a war.

  4. I think you guys are fucking ignorant morons.. That no nothing about the industry.. Cares that you are can drivers if you weren't such assholes to your customers to begging with maybe they would be more loyal to you guys... Ed your a fucking loser! Get a life, get educated and get a real job! Obviously you don't have a life since lyft "took away" your job.. And now you have so much time in your hands and decited to create a blog to show the world how much you hate lyft! Haha get real man!

    1. Funny stuff.. I've driven for Lyft/UberX/Sidecar as a beta driver (several months now) and there is NO personal insurance that covers P2P ridesharing currently. I will defend that all day long. I am still responsible for non-liability.. all collision/comp/etc.. for the rest of my life.. IF the claim isn't denied for being a P2P (commercial) ride.

    2. To Anonymous at 1:14,

      The proper spelling for 'no' in the context of your first incomplete sentence is 'know'.

      Let's move on to your second incomplete sentence. I believe you meant to say we are "cab" drivers and not "can" drivers. Personally, I have never driven a toilet before. Usually, I sit on one.

      You rant that that Ed has to much time in his hands and dicited (proper spelling is decided) to create a blog.

      Yes, Ed does have a serious amount of time in his hands. A great deal of which was and is behind the wheel of a taxi. This would be in contrast to Lyft drivers who think that transporting the public is some kind of social networking opportunity with the bonus of making extra cash. Never mind that they are putting themselves and the public at risk.

      It's seems that you are the real moron here.

    3. If you have an uninsured accident, just file for bankruptcy if you can't afford to pay.

  5. Don't drive for the service then.

  6. I consulted a bankruptcy attorney. You cannot walk away from a judgment in bankruptcy court for injuries to another party which involve negligence such as not carrying the proper insurance while acting as a commercial driver for Lyft.

    You will be liable for life and will be looking at garnished wages, tax refund forfeiture, liens against personal property, et. I can't see how that risk is worth it. You would never think of driving your own car without insurance. But that is exactly what you are doing when you throw a pink mustache on it.

  7. Why arent cabbies rebelling against the real villain: Cab Companies? This is so feudal: how they pimp you out for $100 or more a night ("gate fee") like some reamed out whore. You start a 100 in the 'hoe...sure hate on "rideshare" but u know who the real oppressor is. The Dispatcher. The Owner of your Medallion. Your Pimp.

    They are not your friend. If you go away they will get another to replace you. Word.

  8. One of Lyft terms

    Such Driver will be solely responsible for any and all liability which results from or is alleged as a result of the operation of the vehicle such Driver uses to transport Riders, including, but not limited to personal injuries, death and property damages.

    One of Sidecar terms

    In no event will Sidecar be responsible for any damages (including personal injury, death, property damage, lost time or wages, etc.) Resulting from or related to a ride facilitated by the Service, or for resolving any disputes between you and another user. You hereby agree that your use of the Service is at your sole risk.

  9. I was signing up to be a driver. I had my car checked and everything. For the heck of it I did some additional research which then led me to think to check with my insurance. I have State Farm and they said that my coverage wouldn't cover any incidents that occurred when I was working as a Lyft driver. They also don't offer any type of insurance to cover me in this situation. I told my contact at Lyft that I won't be covered by my insurance and that it is too risky for me. He simply said, "Okay". Needless to say, I decided not to be a driver with Lyft.

    1. I too went through the motions of becoming a lyft driver. I was really excited about it but I found the whole process pretty suspect. I mean its just way too easy to be a driver and it seems like they just hire anyone off the street. Granted they do there background searches etc but still too easy. Its like that saying "if it sounds too good to be true it probably is". I did some research on this company and came across some articles regarding their insurance policy which got my attention big time. After additional research I decided not to be a Lyft driver because its just too damn risky and I refuse to put myself in jeopardy and risk losing everything I have for a measly few extra bucks a week in extra income. You could be the most carful driver in the world but that doesnt mean crap cause there are a lot of crazy drivers out there. Its just gonna be a matter of time till some Lyft driver gets plowed and then when its time to file a claim they will find out they will be dropped resulting in financial hell. I recently was rear ended on the freeway from some idiot (not my fault) which resulted in my car being totaled as well as suffering some back and neck inuries and a lot of stress and anguish. Im in the process of suing him because his insurance company will not pay me an acceptable settlement. THIS COULD EASILY HAPPEN TO A LYFT DRIVER AND IF YOU THINK YOUR SPECIAL YOU HAVE YOUR HEAD UP YOUR ASS!! If it wasnt for my insuranc policy Id be totally screwed. So if you Lyft drivers know this information and continue to drive and taking the risk well you better pray like hell you dont get in an accident. Oh yeah and if you think your insurance company wont find out THINK AGAIN!!

  10. I was was in an accident as a Lyft driver while on the clock. This is how it works. My insurance agency was informed by the other party (a taxi, ironically enough) that I was driving for Lyft. They denied all coverage - including Liability. I am now responsible for my car. Lyft is currently handling the liability (the repair of the other car). So, basically, don;t count on your personal insurance. They won't cover you.

    I haven't driven since.

  11. I love Lyft as a passanger and I recently started driving for Lyft. I have decided to stop based on the lack of insurance coverage. I am glad to hear that Lyft is working on an alternative, but until then, it seems extremely wrong of them to omit this information to new drivers!

  12. Keith Moore-Hilton has some serious neanderthal thinking going on. Rather reminiscent of the days following the freedom of slaves in the 1860's. Proclaiming it will not last long. No one is going to let a black man in his restaurant to eat. Not one is going to sell or give any services to any freed black man. slave owners have been replaced with YELLOW CAB and there drivers. Proclaiming that TNC's like Lyft, SideCar, Über are stealing money out of there pockets like slave owners would proclaim that if slaves were freed, no one will tend the crops, do the cooking.
    Did the the horse and buggy industry sue Ford Motor Company when they introduced the Motel T car. The taxi cab company should sue and go after car company's for selling cars to regular people. That's taking money out of there pockets. The taxi cab should sue and go after the gasoline company's for selling gas to regular people. That's taking money out of there pockets too. The YELLOW CAB company should sue and go after the airline company's for not have a taxi cab permits, license, medallion. If they claim that airliners are exempt, then so should Lyft, SideCar and Über. I digress,....They even tried killing republicans for helping and supporting freed black men. I'm hearing talk that YELLOW CAB company drivers are stealing Lyft drivers pink mustache, urinating on Lyft drivers pink mustache. Lyft drivers might want to have made a custom pink mustache valued at over $500 dollars. So when a YELLOW CAB company drive try's to steal it. He will be committing a felony. YELLOW CAB company is not going to be happy hireling a convicted felon. Something about there insurance not willing to cover the risk. How can the laws that be punish you for something that no one covers. That's like being punish for using my star trek phase on kill settings when it should have been on stun setting. If there is no law or insurance that will cover Kyft, SideCar, Über. then how can you punish people. Just like you can't be arrested for going to work with the common cold. There's no law giving the police authorization to arrest you on that type of crime, since it is not a crime. Like Lyft, SideCar ans Über, they are not taxi cabs nor are the limo's. So there are no laws for pair one person with another threw a smart phone cell app. Should YELLOW CAB company sue or go after cell phone company's too!!! After all if there were no cell phones, then no apps, then Lyft, SideCar or Über, then no image army loss of money from there pockets. Yellow cab is one old dinosaur who's time has come. Adapt or become extinct, entering the lost world of CRT TV's, Betamax, pagers, leaded gasoline, steam ships. The list goes on. I am glad I've lived long enough to see this one last monolithic dinosaur begin to crumble to its knees. Almost a 100 years of there crapoy service is coming to a slow grid ding hauls.

    1. Speaking of Neanderthal thinking!

      Freeing the slaves! What a ridiculous analogy!

      John Zimmer, Sunil Paul and Trais are merely replacing the big cab companies and going even farther in exploiting the workers than Yellow Cab did. Not that the people that run Yellow Cab are any nicer than Travis and the rest but regulations have been set up to control their greed.

      Taxi drivers are covered for Worker's comp and everybody riding in a cab is insured.

      Travis, Zimmer and Paul are like the new Robber Barons who have thrown away all the laws set up to protect the public and the workers so that, like Daniel Plainview in "There Will be Blood", they can end up with all the money.

  13. any update on insurance? what about usaa?

  14. For those above that state that, at the time of an accident, they can simply not tell their Insurance company they were/are NOT a ride-share (Lyft, etc.) Driver; please note that this is criminal insurance fraud.

    Insurance claim paperwork will almost always ask something along the lines of "were you driving for commercial purposes and/or had any paying passengers or performing delivery services". A false answer to this question could land you in a world of hurt.

  15. Why do you think the annual premium for a personal liability policy is around $500 and the annual liability for a cab is $8,500+? It's the risk, and the very reason why you will not be covered. Don't just think of the expense of fixing your car. What if you kill someone, or worse (for your pocketbook) if you maim them for life? Who do you think the injured's insurance company will go after for all of those damages? You. And the policy supposedly in place by Lyft and Uber is not covered if the "primary" fails.

  16. These people don't give a damm that the drivers WORKING for them don't have the proper insurance coverage. All that lyft and uber give a *+/- about is the money they are making off the drivers. The responsible thing to do is for Uber and Lyft to stop "partnering" with any driver that can not provide proof of commercial insurance. Otherwise aren't they breaking some law they must be. Its illegal to hire a hit man. Even if you don't kill anyone yourself your still a murderer!

  17. Anybody here ever have a pizza delivered? No insurance covers those people, either, and the risk is the same.